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We're Classicists and we're bitter...

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People are So Stupid [Jul. 11th, 2005|07:29 pm]
We're Classicists and we're bitter...
pit_of_snarks
[phasma_aphanes]
[mood |annoyedannoyed]

This guy is an idiot. Most of extant tragedy was written before Aristotle 'came up' with tragedy and comedy. WTF? What does he mean by 'came up' with tragedy and comedy?

"The Persians is the oldest play that's survived," Ridgely added. "It's usually lumped with the other tragedies, and it's certainly dark, but Aeschylus wrote it before Aristotle came along and came up with tragedy and comedy so it really doesn't fit well into either one."

Read the entire article: Aeschylus' War Play, 'The Persians,' Is Now a Comedy with Songs
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 04:34 pm (UTC)
Yeah umm... What??!!
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:37 pm (UTC)
well, i will admit that all was a bit of an exaggeration. i mean, there is Seneca and the comic poets Menander and Terence and Plautus. But come on. Aristotle 'came up' with tragedy and comedy? anf these people write and direct plays?
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[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 04:39 pm (UTC)
It looks like he has no respect for the original play either. He even seems a little resentful about it.

Maybe he drew the play out of a hat...
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[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 04:41 pm (UTC)
Our challenge was that Aeschylus' version is a bit of a snooze fest.

That is a little arrogant.
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:44 pm (UTC)
I'll admit that, even though i work on Persians, it is not something i readily assign to my greek lit and greek drama students. its no Agamemnon. But it is really a fascinating play to work on from a research perspective...
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:48 pm (UTC)
it is something of a travesty. especially since, here in DC, they are reviving the Auletta version which was first produced by Peter Sellars back during the first Gulf War. It is a very good adaptation and respectful to the original (though it does move the play from being patriotic to anti-war; amd of course, some challenge the patriotic interpretation of the original).
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[User Picture]From: cleo_eurydike
2005-07-11 04:36 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's one of those things, like, you'd have to see it to appreciate it?
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:37 pm (UTC)
I am actually sure it could be interesting. it is this guys stupididty as to Aristotle's place in the history ot drama that puzzles me.
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[User Picture]From: firynze
2005-07-11 04:40 pm (UTC)
Ahhhh...what now?

I mean, I can sort of see where he's coming from. Aristotle was the first to define the genres of tragedy and comedy, to the best of my knowledge. By that, I mean he's the first guy we have on record as being something of a dramaturg.

There were sure as hell dramas and comedies written and performed before that, though, given that he had to have material to base his categorization on.

And it does, in fact, fit as an Aristotelian drama...just because the Greeks liked their political commentary dramas to have some comic interludes to break up the tension doesn't mean that it doesn't fit into either category!
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:43 pm (UTC)
I think the play itself might not be bad. it isn;t the problem. Its the tyranny of Aristotle that is the problem. what does he mean by 'came up' with tragedy and comedy? Were poor Aristophanes, Euripides, Sophocles and Aeschylus (not to mention the middle comedians and the other tragedians of the first half of the 4th century) mucking around blindly not knowing what they were writing? Please.
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[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 04:54 pm (UTC)
...and Isaac Newton invented gravity.
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 05:01 pm (UTC)
BTW, are you a student or prof at Wellington? I have a friend who is a prof there.
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[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 05:03 pm (UTC)
Neither at the moment. I was a student at Otago University.

I just work at Victoria Uni. Non-academic staff.

Who is your friend?
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 05:05 pm (UTC)
Babette Puetz.
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[User Picture]From: firynze
2005-07-11 04:55 pm (UTC)
No, no, no...what I'm saying is that Aristotle was the first dramatug - he's the guy who wrote the definition of tragedy, based on the works of the brilliant playwrights who came before him.

They knew exactly what they were writing. It was just Aristotle who came and laid down the groundrules for analysing what they wrote.
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 04:57 pm (UTC)
I know what you meant. I just don't think that is what he meant.
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[User Picture]From: adrexia
2005-07-11 05:00 pm (UTC)
I think he may have been told the facts and misunderstood them. He possibly wasn't paying attention at the time. Either way, I don't think he has a clue what he is saying.
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 05:02 pm (UTC)
my suspicion is that he was assigned poetics or a selection from it in a history of theater class but failed to actually read it or attend the lecture.
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[User Picture]From: ladyshrew
2005-07-11 05:02 pm (UTC)
::cringe:: Didn't they learn this stuff in uhh... THEATRE 101?!?!? Good GODDESS.
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 05:04 pm (UTC)
he probably missed that day. his vocabulary (cf a bit of a snooze fest) leads me to believe he was not such a serious student.
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[User Picture]From: ladyshrew
2005-07-11 05:28 pm (UTC)
::cringe:: Yeah. Fortunately, I'm not in a position to throw money at him, so I don't have to decide whether or not to patronise this guy who doesn't seem to have a clue, because it's Aeschylus and actually looks interesting!
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[User Picture]From: avehoward
2005-07-11 05:05 pm (UTC)
I'm not quite sure how you turn that into a comedy...
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From: phasma_aphanes
2005-07-11 05:06 pm (UTC)
Very not carefully, I am sure.
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[User Picture]From: auditrice
2005-07-11 05:19 pm (UTC)
I had always thought Aristophanes was (one of) the first great writers of Greek comic theater. Apparently, I was wrong. CLEARLY this man is FAR superior to any of us in intellect.

That seems to be plain arrogance and ignorance wrapped into one delightful package. Huzzah, indeed.
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[User Picture]From: philosophercat
2005-07-11 06:45 pm (UTC)
Sounds like the sort of things said in the English dept. *is not only a bitter Classicist, but a bitter english lit major* :( Yeah, and the English invented novels. *pfft!*
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